Three Layer Cake

Interview with Joost van Bleiswijk

 

I met Joost in Venice when I met his partner, Kiki van Eijk.  He was sent by the Gallery owner to fetch me from the ‘main drag’ of Cannaregio, but nobody told me they were sending him.  I walked right past a tall blonde with sunglasses on, talking on his cell phone, and didn’t even make the connection til later, when Kiki asked “So you already met Joost?”.  Joost is a Design Academy Eindhoven graduate, class of 2000.  After graduation, he and Kiki opened a studio space together in Eindhoven (right up the street from Maarten Baas).  Although they work quite closely, each designs in a distinctively different style.  In contrast to the delicate work of Kiki, Joost’s work is very strong in character, focused on contours and immediate object recognition, almost essential forms which nonetheless give the idea of greatness.    It only took one internship, with Studio Job, to confirm his idea that in design, you must follow your own ideas regardless of what others might say.  So it was out with the Baroque and in with the iconography.  In a respectful nod to the distant past which has so inspired his designs, Joost is mindful to include old world workmanship in his pieces as well.  He follows a “no screw no glue” philosophy to build his limited edition designs, and is able therefore to offer an additional dimension of value to his collection.  (Above:  Francis Lefebvre, Kiki van Eijk, Joost van Bleiswijk outside the design-e-space Gallery (owned by Lefebvre) in Venice)

Everyone says that the Dutch Designers are the yesterday, today, and tomorrow of design.  Why do you think that is?  What do you think is the staying power in Dutch design?

For yesterday, I think the Dutch have a long history with art that started in the 17^th century and a lot of wealth – where do you invest that wealth? – so a lot of art comes from that time.  The today and tomorrow, a lot of Dutch have an autonomous approach to design and the self-producing part is the most important.  There’s no label which dictates what you’re supposed to do.  You only produce what you think is beautiful without someone telling you what to change.  A lot of Dutch have their own workshops, so basically if you can make it yourself, your product can exist.   I think Dutch design continues to stay popular because the Dutch spend a lot of time on the promotion of their work, since it’s self-produced they have to promote the work because nobody will do it for them.  That’s why we go to Milan, Japan, etc.  Holland is very small, so you need to go abroad to make a living.

Design Academy Eindhoven seems to be the place for cultivating design talent.  Describe your experience there and what it was like among so much promising talent—did it in some way push you harder to be around so many talented people?  How would you compare it to the other learning institutions you’ve had a chance to visit?

Of course you see some talent differences, but you’re around so many talented people striving to make talented things.  After graduation though, it’s different, it’s who will stand out, who will produce more.  For us, it was just a school with very hard work, a lot of work, and you just do it.  You don’t see the fruits of it while you’re there.

The learning environments at the other places I’ve been, like academies and institutes, are much smaller, and I think that’s less inspiring and less competitive.    In a lot of other countries, I think the Design departments are part of a bigger University, so you’re very task oriented and you become good at solving problems, but it’s not a creative approach to design.  At DAE you’re taught that you have your creativity like an artist, but you don’t have your canvas, you have a 3D object you want to design.  You have a personal approach, you don’t care about the technical part, that will be solved in the end by others.  You’re not stopped by all those demands in a product.  You’re still a student.  You learn and develop your ideas, that’s the most improtant thing.  And after that you can execute it, but that’s not the main goal at the Academy.  

At DAE, there are a couple hundred people who all want to be the “next design star” and they’re all competing, and it’s not always that nice.  When we moved out of DAE housing (an old Monastery) and the new students came in, already you could really see the difference.  The first year students were wearing Prada shoes and paying attention to their personal aspect as if that contributed to becoming a designer.  (Above:  Image of high chair and Kiki Rose Lace carpet in design-e-space Gallery. The chair is from a special edition of 3, plated in nickel and made for the gallery. The difficulty and expense of plating in nickel makes these pieces even more valuable and exceptional than those in Joost's stainless steel limited edition set.)

I’ve heard other designers say that being able to make things yourself is a distinguishing factor in successful designers, not just in bringing the product to market, but also in the development.

Well, if you can finally make a connection between the technical aspect and the manufacturing, then it’s even more interesting.  But it’s not taught at the Academy.  It’s true that the people who can do that, you know find the producer or make the contacts with the producer, those are the ones whose work you see in magazines.  (Below:  Outlines project)

You work very closely with Kiki, yet your styles are quite different.  Her business card has gold accents, yours has silver…In the end, what’s the difference between how a woman designs and how a man designs.  Can you see it? 

Sometimes, actually a lot of times I think I can see the difference.  Of course there are exceptions, but it’s just the feel, I don’t know.  I think it’s just the feeling.  The total feel you get from an object that’s mainly nowadays.  If you go back to 18^th century furniture you really couldn’t tell, because the style isn’t so individual.  Nowadays you just sense it.  It’s like women themselves!!!  (laughter).  It’s not only about technical or organic, because there are male designers who do that stuff too, it’s the starting point of design.  Men see the big picture and women seem to focus on the detail, the skin of a design, things like that.  I think men are more into the general looks of a thing, and then the details follows.  For women, I think detail is a starting point.  But I don’t want to generalize for all designers.  For me, I start with the contours of a design and slowly add the details.  For Kiki, it’s more the detailing which is the starting point of the design.

Is your proximity to Kiki reflected in your work, or has your style remained uncontaminated?

I think I have been affected by Kiki, and she has been affected by me.  When we started after DAE, we started building up a workshop ourselves.  I am handy with woodworking and I could figure it out.  That helped Kiki with getting her things in the world.  I think that Kiki can get scared from conceiving how to make something, and I don’t perceive those same issues as stumbling blocks, and I can help her in that.  On the other side, the business aspect and approach toward design has changed in my work thanks to her.  After you work together, you start looking at the same stuff and you start to like to the same stuff.  Last year we were at the V&A and we saw that we liked the same things—she looks to the details, and I look to the detours, but in the end we liked the same objects.  (Above: Little clock, 25 x 19 x 37 cm, Polished stainless steel)

 
You explained to me the extensive work which went into the pieces in the design-e-space inauguration in Venice, from the initial design to the hand-finishing.  How do you manage your design process?  Where do the ideas come from and how do you carry them forward?

I’m interested in archetypes, and especially archetypes of classic objects, objects that have been there for hundreds of years, like a standing clock, high chair, hourglass, objects with history and a conclusion in their shapes.  Although there are a lot of different shapes, you recognize the contours of the object, which are very strong.  You can see that in my Outlines project, I wanted to grab the look.  They are conclusions in and of themselves.  I want to make my own overview and conclusion to all of those “conclusions” so I create my version of that archetype.  By using the “no screw no glue” construction, you get very linear and recognizable shapes.  It’s a sort of re-creation of classic pieces.  What a lot of people do now is they take a baroque style element and they exaggerate a detail in a strong new way, but I don’t care for those Baroque shapes and curves, I care more about the general feel of the object.  I was taking my first theory course and thought I could take this style and add any curve to the legs of a table.  Should I go along with this Baroque thing??  But I decided I needed to go with my own feeling and keep it pure, and that way it becomes more timeless, more sober.  You don’t really recreate a piece, you give more your opinion than your version.  (Above:  Chess-game, Limited edition of 8 + 2 ap, 64 x 64 x 24 cm, The board comes with the 32 chess-pieces in polished stainless steel sand-blasted stainless.  Contains the incredible amount of over 680 separate elements)

What did you learn about design when you were interning at Studio Job? 

I learned that you should work autonomously and not care about what other people think.  I learned to go my own way, be as personal as possible.  Business wise, Job always said it’s more interesting to sell one big piece than a thousand little objects.  I agree with him, now that I’ve been working on my own.  A little object that’s being produced by a label is kind of like a poster of an art piece, like a catalogue that you buy.  But to own the real thing, that’s the one big piece, that’s the real deal.  (Below:  Joost and Big-heavy-cabinet, Limited edition of 8 + 2 ap, 228 x 44 x 226 cm, Polished stainless steel)

 What’s your biggest complaint about the design industry today?  Is there anything you’d like to see more of?  Less of?

Mainly less.  Less of everything.  Less stuff.  No fashion design industry, please.  Not every year a complete new collection.  Of course we’re a built guilty of the same, but it’s not a large collection every year.  I don’t like the fact that design is becoming more fashion like—“this year, BLUE is big, so paint your house blue.”  Or Autumn, woodcarving is big.  Rapid changing of interiors, I don’t like.  You can see that in our designs, we don’t care about trends. 

So then you don’t like my website.

(Laughter).  I can understand it and why you do it that way!  People like new stuff.  But I think the biggest trend should be that there’s no trend.  You shouldn’t force people by giving them new ideas, like new new new.  You should do like an overview—this is new and it’s sustainable.  I used to compare it to the old days.  When someone needed something, they went to the cabinetmaker and said ‘make me this’.  The wealthy could afford something extravagant, but the less wealthy just got something simple, but it was to last a lifetime.  I prefer that you buy something you really like because you fall in love with it, not because it’s a trend or you need it.  I’m a guitar player, and it’s the same for musical instruments.  If you buy a good guitar, you keep it for life. 

You and Kiki said that you keep an eye out on Jaime Hayon, you really like his work.  What is it about a piece that speaks to you first?  What does it have to have to make an instant positive impact with you?

About Jaime, it’s that he makes objects that are little characters.  He takes a vase but doesn’t think of it as a vase.  He makes it into an alien or something.  In general, I look at contours.  That’s why I hate the modern car industry because all the contours are the same.  An object should have personality.  I like pieces that are made of wood or metal, or sometimes plastics, it doesn’t matter, as long as it’s unique.  (Below:  Vases in polished stainless steel, varying heights. Three one-off pieces in stainless steel, available also silver plated outside and gold plated inside by a craftsman near Venice.)

Which three items would you put in a time capsule today that say the most about you and the times we live in. 

A good cooking pan, a garden in general, and a little beach retreat house.  A wood cabin.

The pan because I like good food and spending time preparing it.  It’s a nice thing to do, and it really tells something about yourself, whether you care about yourself, if you like the good things in life.  A garden because people need space.  You can’t stack people 20 stories high on top of each other, you need air to breathe, or a huge balcony could do.  You need solid ground under your feet for a late night fire or relaxing. The wood cabin, because to go explore you don’t need much, you just need simple housing and that’s it.  When we go on holidays, we really like tree huts, beach huts, poorly made shacks.  You can do that anywhere in the world and it’s nice. 

What motivates you?
I would have to say Kiki!  (laughter).  I don’t know.  To grow in creative ways and in business aspects, promotion, but striving for this.  We are not done yet.  If Vitra makes a little model of your design, then you’re done.  (Below:  Kiki and Joost at Design Space Gallery)

What food/dessert best describes your design style?  What was it five years ago?  What would you like for it to be in five years?
Now it’s a Crème brûlée—simple looking, basic, but really hard to make a good one, keep the substance right and keep it solid and good.  I think tiramisu.  More mishmash, a ltitle bit of this, a little bit of that.  A classic, but more things are put into it.  Even if you put too much in, it can still come out good.  In 5 years, I want to become yogurt!  To have as simple and white and good as possible.  The most simple thing but the most refined taste.  And white, because it stands for many things.  (below:  High Dresser in wood)

The first thing you notice in a restaurant?  The way the waiters are dressed tells a lot.  So, if you walk in and see they just have black suits, the typical penguin style, then you know it’s very classic, fake-chic.  There’s a nice place in Berlin and where you’re served by drag queens, and I think it tells a lot about the place.  You should go there, it’s really a nice restaurant.

One food you can never say no to?
All Dutch cheese.  The best one many say is Old Amsterdam.  It has a black crust, is really salty…  Everyone talks about Gouda, but it’s crap cheese, it’s soft and tasteless.  The longer a cheese ripens, the more taste explosion you experience! 

Most important room in the home?
The garden. 

The best color for a front door?
I think it’s plain wood with a clear varnish.  My favorite woods are ebony and maple. 

Favorite flea market find.
That would be like a 1954 Fender Stratocaster guitar for 10euro.  You’ll never find one, but I like flea markets because they always have these stories…”I know a guy who knows a guy who found this really great antique thing worth millions and he only paid a quarter for it…”  I like the fact that you never find that great find and I think that’s what makes it fun.

Your latest obsession?
I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and noticed how the architecture is quite impressive.  I’m looking more at architecture, and classic Greek and Roman architecture.  It’s quite fascinating the Nazi style architecture.  But just the architecture!

Biggest celebrity crush?
I couldn’t tell really…I don’t care about these things.  The thing about celebrity women is that I think it’s all so fake.  I just couldn’t care less.  If you force me, I might say Halle Berry.  MAYBE.

You’ll always pick up a magazine if _____________________ is on the cover?
I think if it’s blank, then I’ll want to look inside. 

Favorite place to people watch.
When you have parties, you sit at the side on a couch or a barstool.  Just outside the party area. 

Which aspect of a foreign culture intrigues you most?
The fact that you don’t know.  The fact that it’s foreign.  The sort of total cultural living.  If you go to, for example, Spain or Italy, the total culture is different—about food, about hospitality.  In Holland, you can just pass by someone- you make a phone call.  Ni other places you just drop in.  So the hospitality… 

One thing you always bring with you when you travel.
A camera and cigarettes.  (Below No Screw No Glue Desk and Chair in polished Stainless Steel)