Three Layer Cake

“You’re only as good as your last client.  Good design needs a good client.”

When I arrive at their studio on Tenter Ground, a tiny little street around the corner from Spitalfields market in East London, I am greeted by Jonathan.  Nipa is seated at a small table in the corner of one of two rooms in their design studio finishing up something on her laptop.  They offer me a seat at their conference table, and as I tell Jonathan a bit about myself, Nipa prepares tea and brings it to the table on a tray with mismatched tea cups, a favorite object of Nipa’s. 

Requesting an interview with Jonathan Levien and Nipa Doshi the first time was harder than my University exit exams and was my first failure for Three Layer Cake.  The thrill and reward was unrivaled when I ‘reapplied’ and was accepted eight months later and after a further meticulous research period.  Jonathan explained then that the decision was based all in the questions.  They needed to be inspiring, and neither he nor Nipa felt that the first questions I’d presented would draw the best out of them.  I realize a bit into the interview that their approach to the interview and the way they interact with each other is very much the way they approach the designs produced by their six-year old consultancy, Doshi Levien. 

The interview with Jonathan and Nipa (above) a conversation with two people who are as adept at putting good design into words as they are at producing it.  The two work together in enviable harmony, as is evident from the clear imprint of their backgrounds which many might consider contrasting, but which Jonathan and Nipa have rendered complementary.  Jonathan is from Scotland, a cabinet maker in his early formation and trained at University level in industrial design.  Nipa is from a Gujarati family based in Delhi and studied furniture design. The two met at the Royal College of Art in 1995.  After graduation, they went to work for different studios, Nipa with David Chipperfield in London and Jonathan with Ross Lovegrove. In 2000, they decided to form their own studio, Doshi Levien.  Since then, they’ve worked with such clients as Habitat, Tefal, the Wellcome Trust and Herman Miller 

Most recently, Jonathan and Nipa’s work was presented at the Design Museum in London, in a traveling exhibit titled My World. Doshi Levien’s installation for My World is partly inspired by the shops and workshops of ancient but still functioning markets in India. Customers remove their shoes, sit on a mattress and spend time talking to the craftsman about what they need. The atmosphere of the shops yields a strong impression of having entered a world; the craftsman’s world; infused with unique smell, touch and creative possibility. Doshi Levien created a liminal space between two worlds, Indian and European, imaginary and real.
 

What you’d like someone to know about you who sees or purchases one of your designs?

Jonathan: I come from a making background, so I have an affinity for materials.  To be specific, I come from a cabinet making background.  But in the tradition of cabinetmaking I felt that the limit to wood was restrictive and I wanted to explore new materials and technology.  I wanted to question objects.  I was making immaculate work, but I wasn’t questioning the relevance.  In what I do now I’ve retained my love of making and shed some of the traditional approach, still remaining close to the materials.  I am fascinated by the tactile, sensual, the haptic quality of materials.  I’d like for someone not to know but to sense and enjoy the love I put into the objects I make and feel the process of the individual production of each object, even though it may be industrially produced. 

Nipa:  I hope that people sense the layers of meaning invested and feel the joy I put into designing it.  I’m not from a making background, but I have an affinity for the maker. 

Your written materials explaining your work are excellent, the best I’ve seen…
Nipa:  In order to prepare for the talks that we do, to put it in writing, we really have to articulate, and get to the core of what we do.  Maybe that’s why they come out the way they do but it’s not easy because expression in words isn’t what we focus on.  We much prefer visual communication and the multitude of references and meaning that you can communicate through design. 

Imagination:  A central element of your My World installation as well as the Wellcome Windows (above: one part of window) with the Wellcome Trust is “imagination” and encouraging viewers to think beyond what they see.  When you design installations that are suggestive in this way, do you have a definite conclusion in mind, or do you hope only to inspire the viewer to think beyond what she sees?

Nipa:  Both.  There is definitely an intention to communicate but we leave enough room for interpretation.  With the Wellcome Windows, it was amazing to hear how close observers’ interpretation of what they saw was to our intentions.  We’re always fascinated at the levels of complexity in the viewer’s interpretation and how they pick up on our subconscious thought. 

The richness of the Wellcome Windows is really unbelievable in its appeal to me as an adult, and what I imagine is also equally appealing to a child.  How were you able to design something that communicated simultaneously such a sophisticated message and also simple one?

Nipa:  The Wellcome Trust was really an ideal client for us because they gave us absolute autonomy to develop the form and content of the project. The brief was to create a series of three window installations to communicate the history and work of the Wellcome Trust to the general public. We set out to communicate the idea of health and wellbeing encompassing the mind, body and soul while sharing some of the marvelous history and current objectives of the Wellcome Trust. Our installation series is based on the idea of transferring knowledge through storytelling. We wanted the viewers to be engaged while learning something about the Trust. We wanted it to be accessible and humanist, not filled with scientific and medical jargon, but health and wellbeing issues that concern us all. We wanted to create artifacts today that would, in theory, be included in the book called The Medicine Man which documents a collection of Anthropological artifacts selected by Henry Wellcome who founded the Trust in 1936. (Below:  stethoscope from Wellcome Windows)

This project was like a gift because it really described how I wanted to work, since I am not an industrial designer and our other work until then was based on Jonathan’s work and skills.  I don’t think anyone could have imagined the final outcome, I know I never imagined that we could do this because you never know what you’re capable of until you’re in the process.  The project is really more me than it is Jonathan. But he made it happen. 

Design identity:  After having worked together so closely for the past six years, would your designs differ if you were each individually briefed to design the same object?  If so, how? 

Nipa:  YES!!!  I wouldn’t design a frying pan if I weren’t with him!!  At the same time, working with Jonathan has given me the confidence to venture into areas I’m not comfortable with.  He gives me the freedom to do what I dream of doing. 

Jonathan:  Nipa paints as part of her design process (below:  Sketch for My World).  I would never do that.  She creates collages to get a sense of the feeling of an object before prototyping that can’t be rendered on a computer.  But it’s my skills that bring it all into being.  There’s sufficient crossover in our projects for us to appreciate each other’s skills and get the most out of it.  We encourage each other to maintain our own identity and style.  By keeping separate perspectives we have a more thorough understanding of our work and each other. 

Nipa:  It has reached the point where we can talk about ideas and if he produces something that’s not him, I can say “That’s not him!”  At the same time, I think it’s impossible to have the same dream.  Some projects are more Jonathan, others are more me.  The cooking tools for Tefal were Jonathan’s baby but I’d look and comment, and it would evolve from there. 

Jonathan:  I think some clients would be afraid of such a hybridized approach, but for us to do it any other way is… 

Nipa:  Impossible. 

So what does that hybridized approach mean when a Client comes to you, how do they know what they are getting? 

Jonathan:  It does create a problem for us.  Some studios have a consistent look and when you go to them, you know you’re going to get a certain “signature” project.  For us, you have to look at the underlying approach.  We don’t want to be pigeonholed for a certain design style.  So the style depends on the clients, the needs of the project.  We don’t force a style on one project and the result is that our work is different from one project to the next. 

Describe your design process.  What strengths does each of you bring to it? 

Nipa:  Jonathan is good at identifying opportunities with clients, but I’ll be the one who says ‘this is the direction it needs to take’.  I’m in some ways more comfortable with the unknown and finding my way.  Then Jonathan starts to draw.  Jonathan is definitely the person who makes things happen.  He has the momentum to take an idea and finish it.  Feeling and materiality are my strengths. In fact, in the future one of the services we’d like to offer are material and color consulting.  For materiality, you study references of a pot, for example.  You study a culture.  From there you come up with an interpretation of an object from the feeling.  Color and material are as much a part of design as the form.  That’s what creates the feeling of an object.  There has to be integrity. 

Design is starting to see an emphasis on non-Western crafts and traditional handiwork and products often incorporated in Western designs.  Do you think this trend will have lasting effects or do you think it’s largely superficial? 

Jonathan:  I think in order to answer this you have to look at why this is happening.  I think people want to move away from homogeneity and want to find room for subjectivity in design.  People want to see more individuality. 

Nipa:  I’m not convinced that it’s sincere.  One has to understand what “fine craft” means.  I think people want the idea of handwork as a look but fine craftsmanship is an attitude and most people don’t care about it, and I think some of it is a trend. Just go look in any store.  The bag that looks like it was hand made probably was… for two pence in China, but people don’t care about that as long as they have the look.  If they really thought about it, if you really wanted a hand woven cashmere shawl made in Kashmir, you would have to pay for it.  I think only a small percentage care about this and know and appreciate it.  (below:  Mattress with Chauper for My World installation) 

What has been the most difficult obstacle to overcome in managing your own studio? 

Jonathan:  Having a business head and a creative head are two different states of being.  They’re not really friends but they are both essential.  To be creative, our minds have to be free of business aspects.  The thought process needs to be separate.

Nipa:  Yet at the same time, I can only work and create when I have a client.  Finding people who have the same commitment to work that we do is also a challenge.  But maybe the biggest continuing difficulty is how do you separate yourself from it?  I can’t escape being a designer.  My whole self-worth is tied up in it.  If I don’t have a creative day, I think there’s something wrong. 

Jonathan:  I agree.  Being able to separate it out is hard. 

How much of your finished pieces is function, how much is aesthetic, and how much is your own message?  What do you look for in an object you buy for yourself? 

Jonathan:  It’s a balance between the three, of course!  When I buy for myself I want something that works well, that’s enjoyable, something I want to have around in the long term.  I like quality and craftsmanship, like for example with shoes. 

Nipa:  Of course, as he says that he’s wearing a pair of shoes that cost two pounds!!!  (Jonathan raises his foot to show a pair of Bata tennis shoes he bought in India).  For me a sense of quality and well-made, it has to work well.  I like utility things from Germany, or Zenith staplers from Italy. 

Time Capsule:  Which three designs would you include in a time capsule that say the most about you and the times we live in today? 

Nipa:  Tajine we designed for Tefal (below),  my Apple laptop, and a pair of Marc Jacob shoes. 

Jonathan: My computer hard drive which has my complete life on it, one of my jackets from the Michiko Koshino “100 range”. My white Bata tennis shoes that cost 2 pounds. 

What motivates you? 

Nipa:  Love for the made thing.  To express ideas and see them come to life.  The joy of seeing an object become real from a drawing. Also, the chance to leave your mark in some way. 

Jonathan:  Identifying project opportunities where there is scope for genuine innovation. Most of our basic needs are answered (in the developed world that is) and it's getting harder to design everyday stuff that makes a real difference to our quality of life. But there’s still so much potential to make our environment and the things we use more engaging, more pleasurable and more sensual. At the same time, we look for opportunities in India where there are some fundamental design problems to solve! The possibility for opposing or contrasting ideas to coexist in one design really intrigues me and this is something I am continually exploring with Nipa.

What food/dessert best describes your design style?  What was it five years ago?  What would you like for it to be in five years? 

Nipa:  Food which is fresh and nourishing with subtle flavours, spices and wonderful colors, like when I make this fish curry from Kerala, just the sight of the green curry leaves, the purple onions, the red tomatoes, and the yellow of the turmeric tells me its going to be delicious. I work from a feeling of what I would like to eat and then start assembling the ingredients. 

Jonathan: I am really into local seasonal foods. So right now, I’m eating a lot of cabbage and squash! (how glamorous is that!) This is getting fused with the Indian influence and we started combining this with mustard seeds, chili and curry leaves. Five years ago, I was cooking similar things, but terrible at quantities and did most things in excess and impatiently. Five years from now, I would like my design approach to be symbolised by the mastery of simple good ingredients.

The first thing you notice in a restaurant? 

Jonathan:  The way you’re received.

Nipa:  Cutlery.  (below, Swallow cutlery for Habitat)

Eating what food brings back the best memories?

Jonathan:  A cold grapefruit after a serious Ashtanga yoga session.  It’s impossible to think of anything while eating it, it’s just great.

Nipa:  Mango.  It reminds me of summers, long summers, in India, plucking mangoes from the tree, while we were on the swing, swinging up toward the branches at my uncle’s house.  Hot lazy summer days. 

The last piece of art you fell in love with.

Nipa:  A photograph by Shadi Ghadirian. It’s a portrait of a modern Iranian lady in 18^th century costume reading a newspaper from 2006. There’s such defiance in her eyes. 

Jonathan: There is an Indian film called Mandi (meaning market or bazaar) starring Shabana Azmi. Shabana is a veteran Indian actress and plays the keeper of a brothel. Every nuance of her gestures are so well studied. The costumes, sets and makeup are authentic. The film is sensual, poignant and funny. 

The first piece of furniture you brought for your home? 

An Eames chair.  The wire one with the fiberglass seat… 

No home is complete without…  

Jonathan: Lots of natural light.

Nipa:  A really wonderful quilt or blanket.   

Information source you can’t live without.

Word of mouth.  Gossip. 

You’ll always pick up a magazine if something relevant is on the cover. 

You’re most proud of your collection of…  

Jonathan: My stainless steel kitchen utensils from India. 

Nipa:  Miriam Haskell jewellery, and here’s my little guardian angel, Anjo da guarda! 

One thing you always bring with you when  you travel… 

Nipa:  My cashmere shawl and my Miriam Haskell jewelry.  I can’t bear to leave it.

Jonathan: There is no room in my luggage because it’s full of Nipa’s stuff.